The Science Article and Discussion Thread

[FoShizzle]

I've been debating for a while whether to start this one. I read a lot of science related stuff and will post the more interesting links here. Hopefully there are other geeks here that will contribute, too.

[FoShizzle]

So was this genuinely an accident, or do you think it was because people were not ready to accept life on other planets?

https://www.livescience.com/63048-proof-of-mars-life-accidentally-burned.html

[KneelB4Zod!]

Nice thread!

Well, regarding the linked article and asked question. I think it depends on what kind of life we are talking about. Overall, I don't think many people would be very shocked with confirmation of exitenco of Martian, or extraterrestrial in extend, life forms if we're talking about microorganisms. It would rise fears about potential health threat for humankind tho'. Or over possible abuse of such microorganisms by governments and their military. But, even in 70s, I don't think people would be so shocked with such discovery (political impact is the other thing). Definitely, different story would be proof about much more complex alien lifeforms, or inteligent ones. Or even technological advanced.

So I think, if samples were really burned and contained proofs of Martian microorganisms, then it was either accident or they considered them dangerous for some reason. Did you see Life movie? Maybe they found Calvin.

[FoShizzle]

I meant both. At that time many people were convinced that Earth is the ONLY planet where any type of life could exist (although the views on that have shifted drastically in the last 20 years). Microorganisms have to exist for more complex life forms to exist.

I am on the fence as to whether it was an honest mistake (which they likely didn't realize at the time), or if it was more of a "Nothing to see here; move along."

Then again....your idea on finding Calvin is also plausible.

[KneelB4Zod!]

I meant both.  At that time many people were convinced that Earth is the ONLY planet where any type of life could exist (although the views on that have shifted drastically in the last 20 years).  Microorganisms have to exist for more complex life forms to exist.  

I am on the fence as to whether it was an honest mistake (which they likely didn't realize at the time), or if it was more of a "Nothing to see here; move along."

Then again....your idea on finding Calvin is also plausible.

Another explanation is possible (rather connected with political impact). They found something important but had no technology fer extraction and transport back on Earth. They decided to destroy it rather, than publish it and start possible technological race with the eastern bloc as they were not sure if they can win it.

In space research is a lot of policy. Even if its widely presented as apolitic effort.

[FoShizzle]

I can see that. I remember in the 80's on the news the references to the Space Race between the US and Russia (then USSR). It's going to be interesting to see what people uncover now that so many countries have space programs.

There isn't much of a way to hide discoveries by other countries nowadays, with the interwebs.

I'm not a scientist, just enjoy reading science stuff - but it would only seem logical to me that there are living organisms on every planet.

[KneelB4Zod!]

I can see that.  I remember in the 80's on the news the references to the Space Race between the US and Russia (then USSR). It's going to be interesting to see what people uncover now that so many countries have space programs.

There isn't much of a way to hide discoveries by other countries nowadays, with the interwebs.

I'm not a scientist, just enjoy reading science stuff - but it would only seem logical to me that there are living organisms on every planet.  

I wish I have more time. Already I'm blessed that I have enough time in my office to spend part of my working time around interwebs. Still I can't read even split of what I would like.

Well, I don't think there is life on every planet. It's hard to imagine lifeforms on planats composed only, or mostly, from different types of poisonous gases. But, the, it depends what we are looking for. I'm not even closely scientist, too, but I remember that the major part of research is focused on lifeforms based on carbon. What if there are lifeforms based on completely different, or entirely unknown, elemnts. Maybe we can even record them with our technology, their movement, lifespan, metabolism is so fast (or so slow) that we can record it with our technology.

I think there are quite strong arguments why majoritiy of scientific community thinks that it's highly unlikely that there are lifeforms based on different elements (I think they can think only about one other, known, element but dunno which one it is) but even behind inkvisition was "science".

[UK AC]

So was this genuinely an accident, or do you think it was because people were not ready to accept life on other planets?

https://www.livescience.com/63048-proof-of-mars-life-accidentally-burned.html

Not sure, but I found this which may be of interest:


@RadioFarSide
13h13 hours ago

#NASA shown to have lied about discovering #Life on #Mars with the #Viking missions so that #GilLevin wouldn't get credit for it; purposely destroyed #Organics to keep the #World ignorant:

As other's have already noted, Gilbert Levin has stated on so many media outlets including recently on YouTube that his experiment to test for extant life in the soil of Mars did NOT fail.He had both a duplicate and controlled experiment with Vikings Landers 1 and 2. It seems that Dr. Levin was not the "off his rocker" scientist after all but was correct. For those who are not aware of Dr. Levin's claims you can watch his compelling interview here (from 2014):

[FoShizzle]

I wish I have more time. Already I'm blessed that I have enough time in my office to spend part of my working time around interwebs. Still I can't read even split of what I would like.

Well, I don't think there is life on every planet. It's hard to imagine lifeforms on planats composed only, or mostly, from different types of poisonous gases. But, the, it depends what we are looking for. I'm not even closely scientist, too, but I remember that the major part of research is focused on lifeforms based on carbon. What if there are lifeforms based on completely different, or entirely unknown, elemnts. Maybe we can even record them with our technology, their movement, lifespan, metabolism is so fast (or so slow) that we can record it with our technology.

I think there are quite strong arguments why majoritiy of scientific community thinks that it's highly unlikely that there are lifeforms based on different elements (I think they can think only about one other, known, element but dunno which one it is) but even behind inkvisition was "science".

Right? If I didn't have a j.o.b. I'd be able to read so much more! I relate to Henry Bemis in that Twilight Zone episode "Time Enough at Last".

What you say is exactly what I think about. I would be shocked if there wasn't other organisms that aren't carbon based which thrive on other planets. IMO, the field of research has been very myopic. Then again, I suppose it makes sense that humans would focus on life forms that would be of similar structure, because we don't know about life forms we don't know about. haha Then again, I'm not a scientist. Perhaps it's because I see life in all things and the value of all living beings.

Hopefully I'll have a little time this week to dig up some more interesting stuff, but I'm going to be super busy on this trip.

[FoShizzle]

So was this genuinely an accident, or do you think it was because people were not ready to accept life on other planets?

https://www.livescience.com/63048-proof-of-mars-life-accidentally-burned.html

Not sure, but I found this which may be of interest:


@RadioFarSide
13h13 hours ago

#NASA shown to have lied about discovering #Life on #Mars with the #Viking missions so that #GilLevin wouldn't get credit for it; purposely destroyed #Organics to keep the #World ignorant:

As other's have already noted, Gilbert Levin has stated on so many media outlets including recently on YouTube that his experiment to test for extant life in the soil of Mars did NOT fail.He had both a duplicate and controlled experiment with Vikings Landers 1 and 2. It seems that Dr. Levin was not the "off his rocker" scientist after all but was correct. For those who are not aware of Dr. Levin's claims you can watch his compelling interview here (from 2014):

Oh heck yes, that is of interest! I'll watch it this evening - I've got a lot to get done today and need to get crackalackin'. Thank you so much for posting this! Will discuss after I've watched it.

[Anon]

The Farcical Battle Over What to Call Lab-Grown Meat







https://www.theatlantic.com/science/

[Anon]

'A goldmine': mummies' secrets uncovered in Egypt








https://www.theguardian.com

[Guest]

I used to go metal detecting, (Americans call it Treasure Hunting). I wasn't looking for "treasure" but items from our past. Found things over 2000 years old, there is so much in our ground, you would not imagine. In a history rich area I am in, you don't need to go far to find things, even in our back gardens you have a good chance of finding something if you can get through all the more modern metal items in the ground.
I miss it very much. Had to give up through ill health and, now retired, my health will still not let me do it.
Had a good time while I could.
Anyone else here do a bit?

[Anon]

Senolytics improve health, extend life: Preclinical research findings









https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

[Guest]

Senolytics improve health, extend life: Preclinical research findings









https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

If that was SENILEytics, I could use some.

[Anon]

If that was SENILEytics, I could use some.

Me2

[FoShizzle]

So happy to see folks posting. I'll catch up this weekend. I just had a few minutes to catch up on news before I'm out for this evening's meetings.

[Mr Badger]

Nice thread!

Well, regarding the linked article and asked question. I think it depends on what kind of life we are talking about. Overall, I don't think many people would be very shocked with confirmation of exitenco of Martian, or extraterrestrial in extend, life forms if we're talking about microorganisms. It would rise fears about potential health threat for humankind tho'. Or over possible abuse of such microorganisms by governments and their military. But, even in 70s, I don't think people would be so shocked with such discovery (political impact is the other thing). Definitely, different story would be proof about much more complex alien lifeforms, or inteligent ones. Or even technological advanced.

So I think, if samples were really burned and contained proofs of Martian microorganisms, then it was either accident or they considered them dangerous for some reason. Did you see Life movie? Maybe they found Calvin.

If microbial life is found on Mars, the first question is: is it in any way related to life on Earth?

If it wasn't related, then it would be time to celebrate, and would also guarantee that life is common in the universe.

However, it's hardly a total loss if any micro-organisms are found to be earth-related.

If it was related, it raises several questions:
It would be interesting to learn whether life originated first on Mars and was carried to Earth via asteroid impact, or vice versa (after all, evolution doesn't appear to be a linear process, see Dawkins' "The Blind Watchmaker") *

*It could turn out that life was carried to Mars by some natural process and yet is either a) in its billions-year-long stasis until more complex forms come along ((if evolution is linear)), or b) just didn't get the ball rolling in terms of complexity ((non-linear, which is accepted today))

Or b) carried to Earth from Mars, which, if it occurred when Mars was already "dying", then that might also explain microbial life not becoming more complex on Mars ((linear)).

Either way, it would be a breakthrough; Exclusive life independently evolving on Mars would be great, but life related to Earth (and vice-versa) would confirm the theory of panspermia, which in turn would also increase the chances of life existing elsewhere in the universe.

Then there's the "shit end of the stick" as we say in England; that any microbial life found on Mars turns out to have been carried there accidently via spacecraft. That's the worst outcome.

Let's not forget that the cold virus survived on board a Surveyor moon landing, was sampled by a later Apollo mission and successfully regrown back on Earth.

I'm on my 6th beer (Carlsberg Export) and smoking a lovely bit of green

[UK AC]

Baby snake 'frozen in time' gives insight into lost world

The fossil of a baby snake has been discovered entombed inside amber.

The creature has been frozen in time for 99 million years.

The snake lived in what is now Myanmar, during the age of the dinosaurs.

Scientists say the snake fossil is "unbelievably rare".

"This is the very first baby snake fossil that we have ever found," Prof Michael Caldwell of the University of Alberta in Canada told BBC News.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44872148

[UK AC]

Egypt sarcophagus: Mystery black tomb opened in Alexandria

Two weeks ago, archaeologists in Egypt found a massive black granite sarcophagus in Alexandria, untouched for 2,000 years - and fleet-footed rumour quickly got to work.

Could it contain the remains of ancient Greek leader Alexander the Great, or (less appealingly) a deadly curse?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44893804

[Mr Badger]

Baby snake 'frozen in time' gives insight into lost world

The fossil of a baby snake has been discovered entombed inside amber.

The creature has been frozen in time for 99 million years.

The snake lived in what is now Myanmar, during the age of the dinosaurs.

Scientists say the snake fossil is "unbelievably rare".

"This is the very first baby snake fossil that we have ever found," Prof Michael Caldwell of the University of Alberta in Canada told BBC News.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44872148

Brilliant! I saw a video somewhere where scientists were 3D scanning the remains of some amber fossils and making upscaled 3d plastic-printed models of them.

Also. I recommend "The Amber Time Machine" with David Attenborough, for anyone who hasn't seen it.

The only thing I admire the BBC for are its natural history programmes, which are unmatched anywhere in the world.

[UK AC]

Incredible how tiny that snake is... when I first saw the amber I thought I was looking at the snake's entire head.

Indeed it will be an impossible task for someone to fill Attenborough's shoes once he's gone.

[KneelB4Zod!]

Egypt sarcophagus: Mystery black tomb opened in Alexandria

Three weeks ago, archaeologists in Egypt found a massive black granite sarcophagus in Alexandria, untouched for 2,000 years - and fleet-footed rumour quickly got to work.

...

According to Egyptian news outlet El-Watan, they initially lifted the lid of the tomb by just 5cm (2 inches) before the pungent smell forced them from the inspection scene entirely. They later prised it open with help from Egyptian military engineers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44893804

[FoShizzle]

New dinosaur discovered in Utah


Entirely new species in China.

[UK AC]

Researchers have found evidence of an existing body of liquid water on Mars.

What they believe to be a lake sits beneath the Red Planet's south polar ice cap, and is about 20km across.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44952710

[FoShizzle]

Researchers have found evidence of an existing body of liquid water on Mars.

What they believe to be a lake sits beneath the Red Planet's south polar ice cap, and is about 20km across.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44952710

I just saw that. I am very excited about this bit of news.

[KneelB4Zod!]

New dinosaur discovered in Utah


Entirely new species in China.

More on this from another article:

amin dada
@kambrone64
16 s
'Amazing dragon' fossils rewrite history of long-necked dinosaurs

http://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2018/07/25/amazing-dragon-fossils-rewrite-history-of-long-necked-dinosaurs.html

"Fossils unearthed on a hillside in northwestern China are forcing scientists to rethink the history of a dinosaur lineage that produced the largest animals ever to walk the planet.

Scientists on Tuesday announced the discovery of Lingwulong shenqi, an early member of the well-known group of plant-eating dinosaurs called sauropods with long necks, long tails, small heads and pillar-like legs. Lingwulong lived 174 million years ago during the Jurassic Period."

[FoShizzle]

New dinosaur discovered in Utah


Entirely new species in China.

More on this from another article:

amin dada
@kambrone64
16 s
'Amazing dragon' fossils rewrite history of long-necked dinosaurs

http://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2018/07/25/amazing-dragon-fossils-rewrite-history-of-long-necked-dinosaurs.html

"Fossils unearthed on a hillside in northwestern China are forcing scientists to rethink the history of a dinosaur lineage that produced the largest animals ever to walk the planet.

Scientists on Tuesday announced the discovery of Lingwulong shenqi, an early member of the well-known group of plant-eating dinosaurs called sauropods with long necks, long tails, small heads and pillar-like legs. Lingwulong lived 174 million years ago during the Jurassic Period."

So freaking cool.

I really wanted to be an anthropologist or paleontologist, but there wasn't a very good living in it. I wish I'd gone that route anyway.

[UK AC]

Petrichor: why does rain smell so good?

It turns out it's not just gratitude that makes rain smell so appealing after a long period of dry weather.

There's actually some chemistry involved too.

Bacteria, plants and even lightning can all play a role in the pleasant smell we experience after a thunderstorm; that of clean air and wet earth.

Known as petrichor, the scent has long been chased by scientists and even perfumers for its enduring appeal.

Wet earth
First named by two Australian researchers in the 1960s, the warm, earthy fragrance we experience when rain hits dry ground is produced by bacteria.

More at: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44904298


How intriguing.

[Libertine]

pretty cool, pretty neat