Re: #3 - Main news thread - conflicts, terrorism, crisis from around the globe

[The Original Mind]

Free speech being undermined and people possibly having to face monetary punishment for voicing a view that is unfavorable to the elite.

It has nothing to do with free speech. It is a property rights issue. You have no right to tell a corporation - or any other economic agent - what services they must provide you and how they must provide them to you.

You could say it's a property rights issue as well if you want, but you have to be blind to not see how many people are concerned that this is more importantly a freedom of speech issue. And it is, ISPs could block access/charge more to certain sites that are politically inconvenient to them or their interests.

Furthermore, consider this: The big US corporations lobby for net neutrality. Why? Because net neutrality restricts market access by smaller companies, who cannot afford the costs associated with proving compliance (among other things). Like other market restrictions (e.g. licensing), net neutrality is a mechanism that protects the vested interests of the corporations.

Regarding this specific case of web neutrality my argument is still valid. Private entities, mainly large, multinational or global corporations as Verzion or Comcast, will decide what kind of content you will be allowed to access.

Indeed. And it's not just slowing down speed to certain sites, but as you said deciding what content you are allowed to access and going as far to censor sites that you want to visit. Like you said, it's like the anti-internet freedom of speech EU legislation that's being talked about, except done by the US corporations instead.

Also, an additional thing is it could make other areas of the business market less competitive because of these ISPs imposing these higher fees onto start up businesses, giving an advantage to corporations in particular markets that would benefit from that.

[img]https://www.rt.com/usa/429434-net-neutrality-top-predictions-internet/



Tulsi Gabbard

@TulsiPress

I’m calling on Congress to allow a vote to restore #NetNeutrality now

That people are concerned it's a free speech issue does not make it a free speech issues. Free speech pertains to governmental restrictions on our speech. NN has nothing to do with that - nothing to do with the First Amendment.

And yes, ISPs could block that sort of content - and face market backlash. And indeed, it is their right to block such content. For instance, if I owned an ISP I might block access to neo-Nazi sites, or to Communist sites, or to child pornography sites, etc.

And regarding business costs: again, that's their right. Simple. To reiterate: more laws won't fix the problems we have. Removing existing laws, such as NN and more importantly the severe restrictions on where internet companies can conduct business, is the path forward.

[boris]

[KneelB4Zod!]

>>> shortened <<<

Well, at first I think lobbying is just legitimized corruption. It's a trick how to avoid terrible statistics proving bribes and clientelism. Big pharma, MIC, corporate media, internet providers - that's all the same. It has nothing to do with democracy, they push their special interests through the government that should represent the people, not the corporations.

The same group of people now can decide what kind of informations will, or will not, their sutommers access. In other words sites questioning activities of big corporations will be banned and custommers won't even know it. As the corporations literally own the government then it gonna be used as powerfull political tool to control minds of the wide audience. I can't see anything positive about it. Actually, the result will be similar as with the EU laws. Washington and Brussels have different paths but the outcome will be the same. Hypothetically speaking the memes will be banned in the EU by the Brussels government and in the US by the private entities.

Of course lobbying is used immorally. I'm not disputing that. But the existence of corrupt lobbying doesn't invalidate lobbying as such. Consider this: The reason lobbying is corrupt isn't lobbying itself, but rather that government is so powerful and so authoritarian that it attracts corrupt lobbyists. When government can do anything and has a history of favoring interest groups, those who want favors will seek to manipulate it. Hence, if we rolled back government, lobbying would not be a problem. Case in point: Almost all economic intervention in the US is justified on the basis of an incorrect reading of the Commerce Clause. If that had been read correctly in the 19th century, all the corrupt economic lobbying we see would not exist, because government would lack the power to intervene in economics in these ways. Now of course, there is the question of how to reign in corrupt lobbying, and there are ways. But that doesn't invalidate my general point regarding lobbying.

Furthermore, consider this: The big US corporations lobby for net neutrality. Why? Because net neutrality restricts market access by smaller companies, who cannot afford the costs associated with proving compliance (among other things). Like other market restrictions (e.g. licensing), net neutrality is a mechanism that protects the vested interests of the corporations.

Yes, if we rolled back. But it did not happen. Obviously, acting government is exactly the same, as the previous one, which was the same as dozens of others. My favorite, over one century old Roosevelt's quote proves it:

"“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today.” "

Regarding this specific case of web neutrality my argument is still valid. Private entities, mainly large, multinational or global corporations as Verzion or Comcast, will decide what kind of content you will be allowed to access.

I totally disagree. Your argument is not valid - you haven't proved it to be so. For one, you can avoid blocks simply by changing DNS, which anyone can do for free. Furthermore, you haven't responded to any of the points I made countering your claims about corporations: they are for net neutrality, net neutrality gives corporations a competitive edge, net neutrality cuts out smaller companies from entering the market, net neutrality laws provide government (and thus corporations) with more legal power, etc. Furthermore, you haven't provided evidence that the big US internet ISPs are actually going to implement content restrictions (which, even if they did, is their right).

Overall, the pro-NN argument rests on a fallacy: that we can beneficially overcome existing legal overreach (e.g. corporate-government imposition on our lives) by creating more laws to fix the problem. Legal overreach is the very problem we face - we need to remove laws to correct it.

I just named two big corporations that lobbyed aganst the neutrality. Yuo're wrong thinking that corporations are for the neutrality, you just mix two things: providers of SERVICES and providers of CONTENT. Now providers of services, mostly large corporations closely connected with the govt., are free to decide which provider of content you´re allowed to visit for free, which for payment and which you wan‘t be allowed to visit at all or what kind of content will be censored. In example let‘s say that your provider will consider this forum inappropriate and disable access to it. There‘s not many things average user can do about it as it is obstacle from the provider‘s side and he won‘t allow access to the forum. It has nothing to do with free market, it‘s just about more control and further restrictions. Do yuo know why? Because it seems to be much easier to form public opinion from the side of service provider than from the side of content provider. Also it‘s new, powerful leverage on the content providers to force them to remove inappropriate content in real time if they want to be accessable from the major service providers. What‘s good about this yet another orwellian tool I really can‘t see.

[UK AC]

That people are concerned it's a free speech issue does not make it a free speech issues. Free speech pertains to governmental restrictions on our speech. NN has nothing to do with that - nothing to do with the First Amendment.

And yes, ISPs could block that sort of content - and face market backlash. And indeed, it is their right to block such content. For instance, if I owned an ISP I might block access to neo-Nazi sites, or to Communist sites, or to child pornography sites, etc.

And regarding business costs: again, that's their right. Simple. To reiterate: more laws won't fix the problems we have. Removing existing laws, such as NN and more importantly the severe restrictions on where internet companies can conduct business, is the path forward.

As I said, this is indeed regarding freedom of speech on the internet.

With the removal of net neutrality, the US ISP oligopoly will have the power to restrict speech to how they see fit, not just for sites advocating extremist material as you suggested. You can argue some legal technicalities to justify how they are within their right to do it all you like, but at the bottom line is the freedom of speech for the many is being put at risk and US mega corps are in a favourable position to benefit from that.

As a side note, did you know that the in Europe the ISP market is highly competitive? The answer? Government reigned in the communications corporations with regulation.  

[img]https://www.engadget.com/2011/06/28/why-is-european-broadband-faster-and-cheaper-blame-the-governme/

[UK AC]

@Lee_Saks
3h3 hours ago

PRES ROUHANI TELLS MACRON IF #IRAN CANNOT ENJOY BENEFITS OF JCPOA, THEN IMPOSSIBLE TO REMAIN IN NUCLEAR DEAL: TASNIM.

[UK AC]

Greece has reached a deal on the name of its northern neighbour, which called itself Macedonia at the break-up of the former Yugoslavia.

After 27 years of talks - and many protests - they have settled on the name Republic of North Macedonia, or Severna Makedonija in Macedonian.

Greece had objected to the name Macedonia, fearing territorial claims on its eponymous northern region.

[img]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44401643

[UK AC]

@Lee_Saks

at least his eyebrows didn't fall off

Spoiler:

[UK AC]

Arron Banks has told MPs probing "fake news" his Brexit campaign had sometimes "led people up the garden path".

But he said politicians were also guilty of spin and claimed Parliament was the "biggest source of fake news".

The tycoon, who spent more than £6m on Leave.EU, said he had faced "absurd" claims of Russian conspiracies.

[img]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44446632

[UK AC]

Quite absurd that this Arron Banks guy is being accused of Russia collusion. Not only is there no reasonable evidence to suggest ties to Russia, but neither has he ever run for public office. Shows how desperate they are to discredit Brexit.

[UK AC]

Court approves $85bn AT&T purchase of Time Warner

[img]https://www.rt.com/usa/429529-att-time-warner-merger-approved




@tmalorni
1m1 minute ago

So AT&T says that by merging with Time Warner it gives customers more choices. Add to that the elimination of net neutrality, we are all in deep deep trouble when it comes to internet and cable. Does AT&T really think we are all that stupid?

[UK AC]

Court approves $85bn AT&T purchase of Time Warner
[img]https://www.rt.com/usa/429529-att-time-warner-merger-approved

@publicknowledge
13m13 minutes ago

We expect today's #ATTTimeWarner merger decision to lead to higher bills, fewer choices of programming and providers, and more mergers, to name a few consequences.

Additionally, the harms this deal will cause demonstrate why broadband users need strong, enforceable net neutrality rules on the books.

Here's our statement:

[img]https://www.publicknowledge.org/press-release/public-knowledge-disappointed-by-ruling-permitting-att-time-warner-mega-merger-to-proceed/

[UK AC]

North Korea's Central News Agency: KIM JONG UN HIGHLY PRAISED TRUMP'S WILL TO RESOLVE MATTTERS

[img]https://twitter.com/Lee_Saks/status/1006645911542554626

[UK AC]

EU tensions flare over migrants as Macron blasts Italy over migrants

French President Emmanuel Macron denounced the decision to block the Aquarius, saying that under international law Italy should have taken the migrants in.

“There is a degree of cynicism and irresponsibility in the Italian government’s behavior with regard to this dramatic humanitarian situation,” government spokesman Benjamin Griveaux quoted Macron as telling his cabinet.

Gabriel Attal, a spokesman for Macron’s party, went further, telling Public Senat TV: “The Italian position makes me vomit.”

Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte responded angrily.

“Italy cannot accept hypocritical lessons from countries that have always preferred to turn their backs when it comes to immigration,” Conte said in a statement.

[img]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-italy-malta/italy-sends-migrant-convoy-to-spain-has-words-with-france-idUSKBN1J80ID

[UK AC]

@SkyNewsBreak
11m11 minutes ago

North Korean state media reports the country's leader Kim Jong Un has underlined the need for North Korea and the U.S. to take practical measures to follow through on issues discussed at Singapore summit

[UK AC]

Arron Banks has told MPs probing "fake news" his Brexit campaign had sometimes "led people up the garden path".

But he said politicians were also guilty of spin and claimed Parliament was the "biggest source of fake news".

The tycoon, who spent more than £6m on Leave.EU, said he had faced "absurd" claims of Russian conspiracies.

[img]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44446632

@georgegalloway
1h1 hour ago

I reckon @Arron_banks must have watched my US Senate video. He absolutely bested the doltards on the parliamentary star chamber today. Ran rings around them #Brexit




God bless George Galloway.

[ussuricat]

SYRIAN WAR REPORT – JUNE 12, 2018: ARMY REPELS MILITANTS’ ATTACK COMING FROM US-HELD AREA ON PALMYRA
https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-june-12-2018-army-repels-militants-attack-coming-from-us-held-area-on-palmyra/

[ussuricat]

ITALIAN TROOPS DEPLOYED ALONGSIDE US AND FRENCH FORCES IN EASTERN SYRIA: TURKISH MEDIA
https://southfront.org/italian-troops-deployed-alongside-us-and-french-forces-in-eastern-syria-turkish-media/

[UK AC]

@mahamyahya
2h2 hours ago

Dramatic turn in #Iraq politics-Muqtada al-Sadr forms alliance with his supposed nemesis & close #Iran affiliate #Ameri /Fatah group! Those who allied themselves with Sadr, incl communist party, cannot be too happy right now! #SaudiArabia was also cultivating a relationship with him

Muqtada al-Sadr came out on top in the recent Iraqi election.

[UK AC]

@FiscalFrontier
1h1 hour ago

Today is watershed moment for the Information Age. NetNeutrality & @ATT merger of @TIME will test the fabric of free airwaves. A content producer & internet service provider = a lateral monopoly empowered to throttle/block other content.

This is not new @comcast & @NBCUniversal represent the same issue. The danger is not just throttling other content - e.g. @netflix. But, censorship of content & propagandizing are potentially around the corner. 1 content producer + 1 service provider = information control.

Plus, access to content will cost more & more. All this for something that is owned by the people. The signals literally go through us. We should all be concerned about these possibilities. The legal decision is sound but the impact is significant.



Other high profile mergers are expected to go through now there's been this precedent.

The loss of net neutrality means that these newly merged mega corps(who now produce content as well as internet service) will have a massive incentive to restrict/block the service to any content that isn't their own. A truly sad day for freedom of information in the USA and the start of an Orwellian nightmare.

[H10]

SURA
‏@AlSuraEnglish
#BREAKING - #Saudi-led Coalition forces begin assault on #Yemen's vital Hudaydah port city. Airstrikes have hit #Yemeni forces around the city, in response Yemeni forces have launched counter attacks to cut off supply routes for the coalition forces
https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/1006729778072702976

It seems things are on the move on Yemen

[H10]

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1006734903730491392
@Joyce_Karam
Más Joyce Karam Retwitteó بدر العبدلي
Coalition Air Force drops pamphlets on #Hodeidah #Yemen telling civilians to avoid being near militia gatherings

[Talos]

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1006734903730491392
@Joyce_Karam
Más Joyce Karam Retwitteó بدر العبدلي
Coalition Air Force drops pamphlets on #Hodeidah #Yemen telling civilians to avoid being near militia gatherings

Wow it is well known that saudi arabia only allows food to the sunni muslim parts of Yemen if they capture Hodeidah all the non sunnis of Yemen will be starved out.

[H10]

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1006734903730491392
@Joyce_Karam
Más Joyce Karam Retwitteó بدر العبدلي
Coalition Air Force drops pamphlets on #Hodeidah #Yemen telling civilians to avoid being near militia gatherings

Wow it is well known that saudi arabia only allows food to the sunni muslim parts of Yemen if they capture Hodeidah all the non sunnis of Yemen will be starved out.

I think that's exactly their goal.. the war is long and it becomming costly for them.. so they will try to kill by starvation..
As always the international community is useless (bunch of globalist pigs) and apparently noone will stop this genocide

[Talos]

https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1006734903730491392
@Joyce_Karam
Más Joyce Karam Retwitteó بدر العبدلي
Coalition Air Force drops pamphlets on #Hodeidah #Yemen telling civilians to avoid being near militia gatherings

Wow it is well known that saudi arabia only allows food to the sunni muslim parts of Yemen if they capture Hodeidah all the non sunnis of Yemen will be starved out.

I think that's exactly their goal.. the war is long and it becomming costly for them.. so they will try to kill by starvation..
As always the international community is useless (bunch of globalist pigs) and apparently noone will stop this genocide

Yep Israel and saudi arabia can do whatever they want because America will always protect them with a veto at the UN.

[KneelB4Zod!]

Syria frontlines‏ @SyriaWarReports · 31 sek.
#Saudi proxies begin assault on port of #Hudaydah

[KneelB4Zod!]

Yemen:

Brecht Jonkers‏ @brecht_jonkers · 35 min.
#Yemen resistance has successfully struck a #Saudi barge at sea, destroying the vessel in retaliation for the attack on #Hodeidah #YRW


Brecht Jonkers‏ @brecht_jonkers · 36 min.
#Yemen has launched a #ballisticmissile at #KingFaisal military area in #SaudiArabia, hitting with high precision
#YRW #Hodeidah

[KneelB4Zod!]

AFP news agency‏@AFP · 2 min.
#BREAKING Italy summons French ambassador over migrant row: foreign ministry official

[KneelB4Zod!]

Yemen:

Yemen Observer‏ @YemeniObserv · 7 min.
Southern Resistance Col. Wada Al-Hakimi (commander of EOD battalion) and field commander Tarik Al-Yafa'i were killed in Hodeida province.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfjaFh3XUAEuuJ2.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfjaGcBWsAEgESj.jpg


Yemen Observer‏ @YemeniObserv · 2 hod.
#UAE army AMX-56 Leclerc and G6 «Rhino» in #Hodeida province.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfi8Bg2X0Ag0vFW.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfi8Bg0W0AEZRUR.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfi8Bg9XkAAbNoJ.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfi8Bg2X0AI6qs5.jpg

[KneelB4Zod!]

Court approves $85bn AT&T purchase of Time Warner
[img]https://www.rt.com/usa/429529-att-time-warner-merger-approved

@publicknowledge
13m13 minutes ago

We expect today's #ATTTimeWarner merger decision to lead to higher bills, fewer choices of programming and providers, and more mergers, to name a few consequences.

Additionally, the harms this deal will cause demonstrate why broadband users need strong, enforceable net neutrality rules on the books.

Here's our statement:

[img]https://www.publicknowledge.org/press-release/public-knowledge-disappointed-by-ruling-permitting-att-time-warner-mega-merger-to-proceed/

AT&T is another large, multinational corporation that is among lobby against net neutrality. All those companies are already criticized over censorship, abuse and other misbehaviors. AT&T, for example, was accussed of cooperation with NSA, allowed agency's agents to monitor phone and Internet communications of AT&T customers without warrants.

Yet another proof how disastrous is Trump's decision and how largerly it props up special interest groups, which he criticized so much during his campaign.

[H10]

Syria frontlines‏ @SyriaWarReports · 31 sek.
#Saudi proxies begin assault on port of #Hudaydah

Houtis wont fall with out a fight....
It this the climax of Yemeni war?